ON TODAY’S EPISODE:

Ashley’s inspiration behind starting Routine & Things [3:03]
Her original goal for starting her podcast [6:41]
The story of her initial launch of the product line in 2020 [7:58]
How she found her graphic designer [10:26]
Her tips for building connections with the media [11:16]
How she overcame imposter syndrome [14:35]
The Mother’s Day giveback program they did with She Rises [15:25]
Why she decided to go all-in on the product side [19:01]
The struggle of running a product based and service based business simultaneously [20:50]
How LABS has supported Ashley in making her product line a priority [23:23]
Ashley’s plans for growth and what she’s working on next [25:29]

Download These Quotables to Save and Share

KEY TAKE AWAYS

“You brought people in to do the jobs that they knew how to do best so you could focus on the things that you did best.” - Katie Hunt [9:48]

“It's been really nice to just see that a lot of people are resonating with my business and what I'm doing.” - Ashley Brown [13:03]

“I think that the timing of your release of these products was really, truly filling a need in the marketplace that so many people had and solved a problem for them.” - Katie Hunt [13:52]

“It's just beautiful to see that people are finding some sense of normalcy with Routine & what we're doing.” - Ashley Brown [14:18]

“I've learned so much and grown so much, I really feel like my business wouldn't have grown as much if I was in LABS.” - Ashley Brown [24:44]

“I firmly believe that when we all collaborate, when we share our knowledge, when we share our resources and our experiences good and bad, not only does our individual business grow stronger, but our industry as a whole becomes so much more resilient.” -Katie Hunt [27:12]

RESOURCES

Routine and Things Podcast
LABS
She Rises
Paper Camp

MEET ASHLEY:

Ashley Brown is the creator and owner of Routine and Things, a product based company which equips women to consistently live their happiest life one routine at a time. Ashley strongly believes routines are a form of wellness and can be a beautiful springboard for improving your home, yourself, and your life. She hosts the Routine and Things Podcast, a space to learn and become inspired on all things routine. She’s on a mission to see as many women as possible live life with ease by starting, maintaining, and enjoying fun and freeing routines!

CONNECT WITH ASHLEY

Website: www.routineandthings.com | Instagram: @routineandthings | Facebook: @routineandthings

Connect with Katie Hunt

Katie Hunt is a business strategist, podcaster, mentor and mama to four. She helps product based businesses build profitable, sustainable companies through her conferences, courses and coaching programs.

Website: prooftoproduct.com | Instagram: @prooftoproduct

Transcript for Proof to Product Episode 211

DOWNLOAD THE TRANSCRIPT

Katie Hunt [00:00:03] We're taking you behind the scenes with entrepreneurs that run product based businesses. There is so much information out there tailored toward service providers. So we have carved out a space just for you, the creative entrepreneur making and selling physical goods, whether you are just starting out or a seasoned business owner. This podcast will shed light on new strategies, inspiration and action steps to help you grow your product based business. Hey, friends, I'm Katie Hunt, and welcome back to Proof to Product. Over the last year, I can say with confidence that I craved routines and to be honest, I don't think I realized how much I need routines and consistency in my life until we were thrown into the pandemic and my family's school work and even our household routines were constantly in flux. And I'm guessing maybe you felt this way too. Today's guest is Ashley Brown. She's a routine expert and the creator and owner of Routine &Things. Routine & Things is a product based business which equips women to consistently live their happiest life, one routine at a time. Ashley strongly believes routines are a form of wellness and can be a beautiful springboard for improving your home, yourself and your life. She hosts the Routine & Things podcast, a space to learn and become inspired on all things routine. She's on a mission to see as many women as possible live life with ease by starting, maintaining and enjoying fun and freeing routines. On today's episode, Ashley shares how her business started. It stems from personal struggles she had as a stay at home mom. She talks about the decision she made to hire a graphic designer to create her products for her rather than learning how to design them herself. Ashley shares how her young business has been featured in major press outlets and on countless podcasts because she proactively pitched herself for these opportunities. And we talked about an incredible give back program that she launched for Mother's Day. Now, before we jump in, I wanted to call out two things. One, if you thrive with routines, definitely go check out Ashley's podcast. It's an incredible resource, particularly for those of us who are feeling overwhelmed or that are transitioning in the types of routines we're trying to implement in our lives. The link is in our show notes here. So you can easily find that. You can also check it out on all podcast platforms. It's called Routine & Things. And second, if you are a product based business owner looking for a community to help you as your starting, growing and scaling your company, come join Ashley and I in Proof to Product LABS. It is a highly active and engaged community of product makers. We have monthly masterclasses, we do small group breakout sessions and I host group coaching calls where you can ask me whatever is on your mind, head to ProoftoProduct.com LABS. To learn more, let's jump into today's episode with Ashley Brown of Routine & Things. Hey Ashley, welcome to the show.

Ashley Brown [00:02:52] Hi, Katie. Thank you for having me.

Katie Hunt [00:02:55] It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. OK, I want to dig first into your backstory here. What was the inspiration of starting routines and things?

Ashley Brown [00:03:03] Oh, my gosh. So routine things were started because it was really started out of a lot of struggle, a lot of pain. It was during my stay at home mom time, I got the opportunity to be a stay at home mom. I did that for about two and a half years. But in the beginning that transition was rough, which really took me by surprise. I did not expect it to be that far from me going from being a working mom to stay at home mom. It was crazy. Life was a hot mess. Home was not in order and I'm pretty much type A.. So that for me was not a great thing, especially for my mindset. And so at a certain point, I did go into a really deep depression at the time. And I'm a huge God girl, so I just leaned onto God. And I was like, OK, so what am I going to do? And I feel like guys that lean into who you are and I'm naturally routine oriented. So I was like, OK, we're going to start some routines around here. And so I remember being really intentional and like starting one routine at a time because I didn't want to overwhelm myself. And so I was like, OK, one at a time. I started with a self care thing for myself because I knew I needed that just a little by little. It took some time now, but little by little after a while I felt like I could see the light again. Things felt a little bit more smoother. I was like, OK, I think I can rock this, stay at home mom thing. And it's so funny because as soon as I got comfortable, I went back to work so crazy. Right? And so from that I knew I wanted to help women to really live that happiest by one routine at a time. That's what Routine & Things is all about. And at first it was more so community. And then I was like, OK, let me start a podcast. I think it could be helpful in terms of educating women about routines. And then that's when the products came, which I love our products, very fun and just routine inspired products that can really help you in the in order and balance in life or at least some sense of it. Right. Life is going to be life.

Katie Hunt [00:05:01] Oh, yeah, you know, your entire story completely resonated with me. I feel like my children are a little bit older. My youngest just turned five and at the time of recording this, my oldest is eleven. And I really I remember that time when I was I was never a full stay at home mom. I was in the corporate world when my first two were born, but I've had pockets where I was only, you know, I've been an entrepreneur for twelve years, had overlap with my day job, and then I left the day job and was just working in my business. But I also. These small children at home and so like family came first, but I also was building this business and I felt like I lost a lot of myself in those early days. Like you said, the self care kind of went out the window. Everyone else's needs came and became a priority. Our routines were not what I needed them to be. So I resonate a lot with your story there and and having to kind of reset ourselves. And it sounds like you took your personal experiences, shared them with others through your podcast in a way to educate. But also I don't want to see commiserate because I have like a negative connotation to it, but like empathize and support one another in. And I want you to know how much your podcast is supporting other people. It's supported me and many other people I know that have been in similar situations. So thank you for creating that. And if you guys, not anyone listening, has not listened to the podcast, I'm going to link it in the show notes. So please go check it out. It'll really help you in a lot of different ways, but thank you for sharing that back story. So you started the podcast in 2019. Again, this educational community building platform that was kind of your original goal with the podcast, is that correct?

Ashley Brown [00:06:41] Yes. My original goal was that I to get just more eyes on what I was doing in terms of how I can support women. And so I was like, OK, I think a podcast can be a really great way to do that. And it's something that I do. And I have a day job and a career as a nurse educator. So I knew, OK, I love educating, why don't I do this with Routine & Things? And so that's how the podcast got started and I'm so happy that I did. And it's so funny because the name of the podcast at the time when I started it was called Peace of Home. And I remember thinking to myself, I know this needs to mess with my business name. And then I changed it.

Katie Hunt [00:07:23] It's funny because, you know, I was Tradeshow Boot Camp before and then we started Proof to Product as its own standalone. And then I transitioned the business name to Proof to Product. It's funny how these evolutions happened with names, too. OK, so you started the podcast. It was it's been this really powerful educational platform, community building platform, a great way for you to showcase your expertise and also educate in a way that you feel good about. You layered in the product line. Was that in September 2020? Is that correct?

Ashley Brown [00:07:51] Yes, September 2020 is when we started the product line. Yes.

Katie Hunt [00:07:56] Not that long ago actually.

Ashley Brown [00:07:58] No, not that long ago at all. Which is so crazy because I remember thinking to myself, oh, how is this going to land? Because it was I started thinking about it when the pandemic started and then I was like, no, this like this needs to happen like this. Is that right? Yeah. I was like, oh, let me go ahead and start working with a graphic designer and starting to really think about what can help women in this time. And so, yes, we launched in September 2020. It was a really beautiful launch. People were really into the products. People still are. And we've had a lot of just in the business, a lot of success just with our products. I think we're just starting. And of course, I'm not making a bunch of money, but I'm making money, which is a positive, right? It's like, yeah, yeah. And it's on an upward trajectory, which is really great.

Katie Hunt [00:08:49] Well, an interesting thing about you, too, is you are not a trained graphic designer. You mentioned that you went out and found someone to help basically take your ideas and concepts and create products from them, correct?

Ashley Brown [00:09:00] Yes. Yes. And that was one of the things that honestly, kind of in the beginning, I was like, oh, should I be create my own product? I try to learn how to do the graphic design side because I'm that type. So I'm like, I can do anything. Like it's like I can learn to do anything. I'm like a lifelong learners only should I be doing this? And I was like, no, like, that's not your expertise. You can do sketches of what you want it to look like. Let someone else design it. And I'm glad I went that route.

Katie Hunt [00:09:28] So I love that you're sharing this perspective because I think I was self taught in art. When I started my product line, I felt like I spent so much time trying to learn that side of it. But to your point, it wasn't my area of expertise, like running a business, building a business, the system around the business, the marketing of that was my zone of genius. Right. And so I love hearing you say that you brought people in to do the jobs that they knew how to do best so you could focus on the things that you did best

Ashley Brown [00:09:57] Yes, which I think is so important. It's been really helpful for me just in terms of running this business, because I'm really quick to be like, OK, who can help me here? This is not my level of genius or my zone of genius. So who can help me? And I will get the man really quick to help me bring to fruition what I want to make happen.

Katie Hunt [00:10:16] Was it difficult finding a graphic designer? Did you feel a lot of stress around? Like, how do I even structure the compensation around this or is it a freelance project or like there's so many different ways you could structure that, you know?

Ashley Brown [00:10:26] I know. No. And I remember reaching out to people that I knew that I had worked with in the. It's like one coach I worked with and she was like, well, this is my graphic designer and when working with her, she did give me options about, you know, just in terms of compensation and what that would look like. And so I just went with what was best for my business. And it's been working. We've worked together multiple times, so it's been really good.

Katie Hunt [00:10:49] That's awesome. I'm so glad to hear that it worked out well. OK, so you launched in September 18 20 and you have already had your products and your brand and your podcast featured in a whole bunch of media like Parents Magazine, the Every Mom, Working Mother. How do you build these connections? And also, I would love to hear your advice to others who are looking to get featured in the media. Like what should they be looking at or thinking about? But tell your side of the story first.

Ashley Brown [00:11:16] Yes. Yes. So for the features that I've had that was really intentional. For one, it was a very intentional thought out thing. But I remember where it all started. It was I did a which people would call like a PR run. I just was like, oh, let me do some relationship building. Let me try to get on to certain people's podcasts to support their mission, their community. And so I did like this three month PR run to just build relationships. And from that I met some amazing, amazing women. And so I remember a feature that I got was benefit by Kathy Joy Garcia, and she's beautiful. I remember she reached out to me and was like, Oh, so-and-so gave me your name. And I was like she was like, I want to feature you. And I was like, wow. So just seeing like just having that relationship with the one person, then let's have a relationship with her. And so from that, I've gotten a lot of opportunities just in connection wise. But as far as like even like parents magazine or even working mother, I've reached out to them. And so I sent them an email and it was very basic. It was like, this is my business. I would love to be a feature if you're ever thinking about it or read an article. And I did like shots of the picture, like some of our pictures and products. And I was so amazed at how many people reach back out to me. I was like, oh my gosh, a little bit imposter syndrome was coming up the end because I was like, oh, shoot, I really want to like, feature me. So it was just so beautiful. And so that was that was how all of those things came about. And it's just been really nice to just see that a lot of people are resonating with the business and what I'm doing. And people absolutely. They give me so many compliments and I'm like, oh my gosh, I never knew this. Many people love routines as much as I did.

Katie Hunt [00:13:07] Well, you know, I will say, first of all, we all I'm going to generalize here, but I love a good routine. I was going say we all love our good routine. I know that's not true. My husband does not love it so much. I do. And I know that especially over the last year with a pandemic like all of us, we're craving structure and a rhythm and a routine. Like even if it was a new routine, I know I was with my children and their schooling and my work. I just felt like it was crazy. So I think that the timing of your release of these products, it was really, truly filling a need in the marketplace that so many people had and solving a problem for them.

Ashley Brown [00:13:48] Yes. And that's that's what I absolutely love, is that I was able to meet that need. And just still and people like always talk about the pictures and just like it's been really helpful and and that's lovely to hear. You know, it's just beautiful to see that people are finding some sense of normalcy just in this, you know, with Routine & what we're doing. So I've been having a lot of fun.

Katie Hunt [00:14:13] That's awesome. So I love to hear to that. You proactively picture yourself for some of these media opportunities. And they landed really strong. So that's awesome. And it's a good reminder to all of us to put ourselves out there even when we might feel that imposter syndrome kicking in, or we might feel like, oh, I'm just a small fish in a big pond, but you never know what's going to happen. Right? Right.

Ashley Brown [00:14:32] You never know. And that's the thing I've really had to get over that mindset of like I remember thinking to myself, not wanting to email someone for a part because it was a big part, cause I was like, I don't know if I should email her. And I was like, no, go for the least. You know, like the what she can say is, no, this is what's going to happen after that. Nothing like, OK, maybe she might pass your name along, maybe, you know, in the future she might remember that you're doing something. So I always look at it from that perspective because I've pissed a lot of people and I've gotten knows and it's fine.

Katie Hunt [00:15:04] Same, same, same, same same. That's something I say to my kids a lot too of like, what's the worst that can happen? As for what you need, ask for what you want. The worst somebody is going to say is no. And even then it's still there's still room for other conversations. OK, Routine & Things just did a really incredible give back program for Mother's Day. Do you want to tell everybody about it what you did and how it worked?

Ashley Brown [00:15:25] Yeah. And so, yeah. So we were actually partnered with an organization. I live in Baltimore, Maryland, so we partner. With the organization and Maryland cause she rises and it's a nonprofit that really helps to support teen moms, young mothers in navigating motherhood and with, you know, being in school and just, you know, starting their careers and things like that. And so I remember I was reaching out because I'm really big on reaching out to my support network and just people that I know. And I'm like, oh, would you be willing to like would you like a Mother's Day self care kit? And this is the thing, Katie. I remember someone messaged me back and she was like, oh, I would love to sponsor a kit for your community. Katie, I was not thinking about that side. And I said, Yeah, oh, my gosh, that is brilliant. I'm like, yes, I want to give back, because that's been a huge thing. When I started doing I'm like, I want to be a company that gives back to the community and regularly. And so I was like, oh, this can be a really good starting place. So I quickly jumped on an email, was looking up people on the computer and like, who can I work with? And so we ended up working with She Rises, which was so beautiful. And people are our community to contribute. We end up being able to sponsor and donate fifty three boxes to them for Mother's Day. Yes. So she was so overjoyed when I went to her home to drop off the boxes and she was like, this is amazing because they work. They have recently started. And she was like, this is like really beautiful that you are able to do this in you and your community. And so I was just like, my community is amazing. I love the people in this community and just my friends and support systems. That is just so beautiful to see. And that's something that I want to continue to do. And I feel like I want to do it every single Mother's Day is to something like that, because I think it's so beautiful. And just in general, giving back just feels good. I love it.

Katie Hunt [00:17:18] Oh yeah. So the gift boxes that you gave and they went to the young mothers that were sponsored by this organization then to exactly.

Ashley Brown [00:17:26] Once you sponsor Fox, which you are so grateful to sponsor. Thank you. Can you want to sponsor once you sponsor a box, it will go to a mom in their organization. And so we put the pictures the other week with some of the moms that were open up.

Katie Hunt [00:17:42] The the box is just so awesome. If you guys want to see the photos, head to your insta Ashley's Instagram. We'll put that link in the show. Notes to I loved seeing how you did this because you did you rallied several people from the product world to create these boxes. And I assume they donated their product to them. And then you put it out to the world of, like, sponsor a box. Let's let's shower these women with love for Mother's Day. And it felt good to be a part of it from the outside as a contributor. But like seeing you and just your passion for it was really incredible. So thank you for sharing that with us. I think it's really cool to see there's other ways to participate and give back other than just a donation or donating product or whatever it is. It's know you can do something creative that combines the people in your world, the community, which is exactly what you did.

Ashley Brown [00:18:30] Yes. Yes. It was so beautiful because it just showed a lot about who was in my community and in the generosity that is in this community, which was really heartfelt for me for sure.

Katie Hunt [00:18:42] Absolutely. OK, so I want to go back to your timeline a little bit. 2010, you started the podcast. 2020, you decide to do the pipeline. Did you tell us what was kind of the inspiration for like I know you said that you're really focused on growing the product side this year. What helped make that decision to go all in on the product side?

Ashley Brown [00:19:01] I think because I started to think about, well, OK, with the the oh, this was it. I was like the podcast is that learning site, like the education site. So I was like, that's there. And that's for anybody to consume, anybody to listen to. And I was like, OK, I should really focus on this product side, because that was a side that when you learn, you learn about creative routines, you learn about maintaining routines, the products are going to help you with maintaining your routines. And so that's why I wanted to go all in. And I also knew, because this is something that I'm working on right now is turning. I do a workshop every now and then and I'm working on turning what I teach in the workshop into an actual digital product where it's like a master class that comes with the workbook. And so I'm like always thinking about, well, can I capture what I teach into a product so that that can be available for people? And so that's why I really want to go to the product side and also just from my personal life. I like that a little bit more than the because I mean, I absolutely love teaching, but I do that on the podcast. I'm like, why don't I go on in on the product side to kind of balance it out some. So that's why I wanted to focus on that. And I think just in general, I'm really hoping this is always my wish and prayer is that I really want Routine & Things to be a household name. And so if that's going to happen, then the products are going to be the way to go.

Katie Hunt [00:20:30] Well, it feels like a very. Natural and intentional extension of what you are already doing, right, like it's another way to build the business, to increase the revenue, to add that revenue stream. It's interesting to hear, like, it's hard running a service based business and a product based business at the same time. Do you struggle with that?

Ashley Brown [00:20:50] Yeah, that's that was one of the reasons that one of the reasons why I was like, no, I have to choose one or the other because it's hard doing both. And so that's why now I'm looking at turning my workshops into a digital thing that people can access at any time, because I don't know if in the future I want to do the workshops because a lot of times people are like, oh, the timing. So I'm like, OK, let me turn this into here. And I will always, like, reach out to my community to see what they think about things. And they're like, yeah, that would be great. So that's why I'm willing to do and then with the service that I would still do, like I do like speaking engagements where I would teach for other people's community. And so that will still be the way that I do the workshops. But the products that would be more so my focus for that. Yeah.

Katie Hunt [00:21:38] The nice thing about it, though, is like you have the same audience for all of these sectors of your business. So a lot of times I see people that are trying to run a service based business and a product based business, and there's not that alignment necessarily like there's different audiences that they're speaking to, which then creates different marketing strategies and sales tactics. And, you know, and that becomes really complicated, I guess, for lack of a better word. That becomes very complicated very quickly.

Ashley Brown [00:22:05] It does, because I know even for me, a part of you focus on the products, too, because I was like, I don't want to confuse my audience and community. Like, I don't want to confuse them, because now I'm saying, OK, I'm teaching this and doing this workshop, even though it is conjoining like it can work together and mesh well. I was still like, I want them to know Routine & Things is a product based company, but that is what we are like. Yes, I will teach and do the workshops with that's our primary way of really serving you is through our products.

Katie Hunt [00:22:36] I love that. It's also fascinating. This is just a total in a side note here. It's fascinating to see with the pandemic. There have been a lot of service people that are now entering the product space and there's also product people that are entering this more like digital online space with courses or coaching or things like that. So I think it's been a real year of transition and self reflection for a lot of people. But the way you've gone about it is very intentional, very smart, and I think it makes a whole lot of sense for you. So I'm excited to see where you go next. You know, you are one of our Proof to Product LABS members and you are one of our founding members joined us at the very beginning. How has being a LABS helped you as you have made the product line more of a priority in your business?

Ashley Brown [00:23:23] Oh my gosh, LABS has been absolutely amazing for me. Like, I honestly don't know what I would have done if I was not in this community because, oh my gosh, it came at the perfect time. I remember I was just starting. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like is something for this. I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you. Thank you. But LABS has been really transformative because with the community, like when people go and post about things, I'm like, oh, I didn't think about that. Let me look and see if this is something that I could implement or would be great for my business. I think just like having the master classes and being able to even go back, because a lot of times I can't attend live to like the Q&A. But going back and listening is super informative and helps to dive right in me. Am I really stay in alignment with what I want in my business? Because of course I we have a lot of things in LABS that we can focus on, but I'm always like what is important right now in this season? And so it's really been super helpful and just giving you creative ideas and ways to think about things. And just I feel like the community is really amazing, like the people in there are super sweet. They are always so generous. And just with the information and I've learned so much and grown so much, I really feel like my business wouldn't have grown as much if I was in LABS.

Katie Hunt [00:24:44] Oh, well, thank you for saying that. I also I don't know if you saw it, but we added a new search feature and LABS so you can go into all the Q&A and search by keyword and it'll pull up whatever you're working on. So the fact that you're like, I just want to stay in my lane and focus on what I'm working on right now, I totally want that's what I want for you and everyone else in there. And we've found these different ways to try to make that easier for you. So I hope you're I hope that's been helpful tool for you, too.

Ashley Brown [00:25:12] Oh my gosh. That has been so hard. I was just doing it this morning. I was like, e email, email opt in or email marketing. I'm like, yes, that's what I needed.

Katie Hunt [00:25:22] That's awesome. OK, what is next for you? What are you working on the rest of this year? What are you prioritizing in your business that you can talk about.

Ashley Brown [00:25:29] I know because I have something real. Juicy coming up so that I can't talk about, but outside of that, really focusing on adding more products. So we're going to do a fall launch where we're going to have some really beautiful products coming out soon and also just connecting with more people still doing that relationship building is going to be really huge with the fall, especially because that's my time when you're talking about routines and back to school and all of that. So that's going to be a huge focus as well. So building up the product side and the one thing that I can speak about, which if you follow me on Instagram, you'll hear about it probably soon.

Katie Hunt [00:26:05] OK, good. I'm going to be tracking you. I want to see what's going on. All right. Well, let's tell people where they can find you online to check out your products, to listen to your podcast and just follow you on Instagram too. You want to share all those?

Ashley Brown [00:26:17] So, to find out about our products you can go to RoutineandThings.com. And also you can check out the podcast there as well. The podcast, Routine & Things podcast is available wherever you listen to podcast. But then to follow me on Instagram, that's at Routine & Things. And I'm always on there, you can always shoot me a DM to ask me any questions.

Katie Hunt [00:26:37] Ashley, it was such a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you for your time and for coming to share your story with us today.

Ashley Brown [00:26:43] Thank you for having me, Katie. It was so nice to be here with you.

Katie Hunt [00:26:47] I loved hearing Ashley's startup story today and how she turned her personal struggles into this beautiful support network and educational platform and a product line that the sole purpose is to support other women. So if you haven't yet checked out Ashley's products, be sure to go do that. She's at RoutineandThings.com, and we've included all of her links here in the show notes as well. And I got to say here, Proof to Product, we feel the same way that Ashley does. I firmly believe that when we all collaborate, when we share our knowledge, when we share our resources and our experiences good and bad, not only does our individual business grow stronger, but our industry as a whole becomes so much more resilient. So friends, if you are looking for a community of product based business owners to lift you up and support you as you reach for your goals, come join us. I invite you to join us instead of Proof to Product LABS. You can get more details at ProoftoProduct.com/LABS. That's where all the information about the program and you can read about our upcoming trainings, all that's listed there. Again, that's ProoftoProduct.com/LABS. But I can tell you from personal experience that I have been able to scale and grow both of my businesses, my product based business that I had for a long time and Proof to Product because of the people I surround myself with and because we were so transparent about the things that were working in our businesses and not. Now, that's not to say every business is the same. There's not one linear path for all of us to take to grow a business. It's not just one road map, but hearing about other people's experiences, hearing what's working for them or not working, it gives us more perspective. It gives us a wider range of things to consider and then implement in our own lives. So, again, if you're looking for that support network, come join us at ProoftoProduct.com, slash LABS. Thank you so much for listening in today. Be sure to check out Ashlee's podcast or Instagram and her website. Again, all of those links are here on our show notes. Have a wonderful day and I will be back with a new episode next week.